Goodbye Deore? Hello Shimano CUES!

Sep 26, 2023

Big news for mid-tier mountain bikes as Shimano CUES enters the chat and kills off Deore (well, Deore 12-speed will remain), Tiagra, Alivio, Sora and other familiar groupsets.

No more Deore 9-11 speed. No more… er, any of the existing MTB and road groupsets below SLX and 105 in fact.

The new Shimano CUES marque replaces Deore, Alivio, Acera and Altus on the off-road side of things. And replaces Tiagra, Sora and Claris on the road scene.

The fundamental idea of Shimano CUES is that lower-end groupsets are no longer ‘trickle down’ versions of tech that used to be XTR or Dura-Ace twenty to thirty years ago. CUES stuff is a relative blank slate.

CUES drivetrains are designed first with the everyday and/or beginner rider in mind first and foremost. Qualities such as simplicity, cross-compatibility, and durability are how Shimano are explaining CUES. Not racing, lightweight or innovation.

While on the one hand CUES is ostensibly simpler. It isn't the case that's it's all just one all-encompassing CUES drivetrain. There are multiple CUES drivetrains, each with a number series attached eg. Shimano CUES U6000.

There will be 9-speed CUES, 10-speed CUES and 11-speed CUES.

While there will still be front mechs on some CUES drivetrains intended for trekking and road use, for mountain biking, CUES is 1x specific. Chainrings are all narrow-wide retaining designs. Almost all the rear mechs will have clutches in them (the lowest tier CUES U4000 rear mech will just have a much-stronger spring).

To briefly go into the number series, U8000 is essentially XT for trekking bikes and as such probably won't be encountered by MTBers. It's the U6000 CUES stuff that will be the main stuff. If you know you’re Shimano numbers, you can kinda get the vibe that Deore M6000 has been replaced by U600.

Shimano appear to be being nice (or just realistic) and state that CUES products will work just fine with third party components, provided they are the same speed (9, 10 or 11). This means that bike brands, and members of the public, can spec a non-Shimano cassette in their otherwise CUES-equipped bikes.

Interestingly, during their presentation Shimano explained that their 11-speed stuff was theoretically the most durable of all the speeds they produce. Something to do with having the most surface area interacting between chain and teeth.

At this point all you 11-speed hold-outs can punch the air and look smug. And all you 12-speeders out there can sigh, roll your eyes and/or curse.

9-speed CUES will offer 11-46T cassettes. 10-speed is 11-48T. 11-speed is 11-50T.

All CUES shifters will actually pull the same amount of cable per actuation; it's just that the 11-speed shifter will have 11 clicks, the 10 has 10 clicks and the 9 has 9 clicks.

At the cranks there's not much to report. External cup Hollowtech II bottom brackets remain. With good ol’ square taper bringing up the very lowest CUES tiers.

Remember the more-durable Shimano Linkglide drivetrain parts that were announced a couple of years ago? Shimano CUES goes hand-in-hand with Linkglide. Yep, the CUES ‘roadmap’ is why Linkglide wasn't produced in 12-speed flavour.

If you remember the Linkglide launch you may remember the flak that the LG600 cassette got for being rather portly (780g claimed weight). Shimano have ditched that cassette. The new LG (Linkglide) cassettes are not really any appreciably different to their HG (Hyperglide) siblings.

At this point we think it's worth pointing out that Linkglide offers the smoothest shifting of ANY Shimano groupset, XTR/Dura Ace including. It also no longer requires the rider to back off the gas during shifts. Just keep the power down and it just… shifts. Linkglide also claims to be significantly stronger and more durable than non-Linkglide components.

Although closely allied to CUES, and definitely relevant, Linkglide stuff will not have the same series numbers as CUES stuff. Linkglide items are all prefixed with LG (LG700, LG400, LG300 and so on). As mentioned, there is currently no Deore-equivalent Linkglide cassette. The LG700 cassette is the nearest (which is essentially SLX-ish level Linkglide).

Tacked on at the end of the CUES presentation was a quick look at some new hubs. The CUES hubs feature various departures from Shimano's usual way of doing them. Modular axles and freehubs ie. can be converted from QR to bolt-thru, Microspline to Hyperglide freehub).

And… cartridge bearings! Shimano were at pains to point out that they haven't just relented from their cup-and-cone dogma and slapped cartridge bearings in. The (TC600/500) CUES hubs have labyrinth and contact seals in them to make them better sealed than most cartridge bearing designs. There are also twin double-row bearings in the freehub part of the axle.

All-in-all, CUES appears to be great… for anyone using less than 12-speeds on their mountain bike.

We’re still finding out more about CUES (including UK prices and what, if any, cross compatibility with 12-speed stuff there is) and hope to bring you some more info – and real-world photos of the U600 stuff – very shortly.

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Cotic RocketMAXer. Schwalbe Magic Mary Purple Addix front. Maxxis DHR II 3C MaxxTerra rear. Coil fan.I have been a writer for nigh on 20 years, a photographer for 25 years and a mountain biker for 30 years. I have written countless magazine and website features and route guides for the UK mountain bike press, most notably for the esteemed and highly regarded Singletrackworld.Although I am a Lancastrian, I freely admit that West Yorkshire is my favourite place to ride. Rarely a week goes by without me riding and exploring the South Pennines.

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Will it be backward compatible with old shimano 11 speed stuff? assuming that the cassette spacing, cable pull etc are matched to the requirements of the most number of sprockets on offer and that current shimano 11 speed is the optimum spacing for that many sprockets?

Although ‘With taller and thicker cassette teeth."

may mean Cues chains are needed for the cassettes?

So will, for example, 11spd road STIs work with MTB mechs? If so, this will be great for reducing all of the different lower end and OEM kit they have to produce.

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Oh deer!

So Shimano had cross compatibility between MTB and Road shifting for years, then designed it out about a decade ago and now they’re reintroducing it…

What's missing from all of those beauty shots is a Drop bar lever with Hydraulic brake callipers connected, I’d be interested in lower-mid tier stuff like this for Gravel bikes, assuming they’re not going to start splitting it down into MTB/Road siloed compatibility at a later date…

will, for example, 11spd road STIs work with MTB mechs?

That was my first thought too. Could be ideal for gravel bikes, drop-barred MTBs, hybrids and so on.

Is this brilliant news for making drop bar monster cross bikes… mixing MTB drive with road drop bar shifters?

I like a 9 or 10sp wide range gear option.

Deore +30% I bet.

And… cartridge bearings!

Anyone hoping for some ‘trickle up’ from CUES?

Looks like a step in the right direction for making affordable group sets again.

On the MTB side it absolutely makes sense, there's been less and less between Deore/SLX/XT over the last few iterations, and the differences sometimes didn't even make sense. Presumably this’ll mean SLX drops down slightly to fill the gap and XT will actually be an upgrade rather than just feeling like a few hundred quid upcharge for a more silvery finish,

But, it leaves a massive gap on the road side. If 105 is Di2 only, and this is going to be on the heavy side of things. It doesn't even leave a mix-and-match option of a 12s, disk braked, mechanically shifted drop bar groupset. I’d kind of hoped they’d at least add an extra click to some old 105 STI's and make a Tiagra 12s disk groupset.

I wonder if we’ll see a rise in manufacturers specifying Microshift or Sensah as a result? The Sensah Empire Pro groupset in particular looks really appealing in conjunction with some Juin-tec/ZTTO calipers.

Anyone hoping for some ‘trickle up’ from CUES?

Not really, the current C&C hubs are really well made and sealed. If your last experience of them was the old XT M756 hubs then while those needed rebuilding every 6-months with those cone shaped seals that got torn up on the spacer washers, the new ones are a whole different animal with propper seals.

The only caveat is you really have to service them before they need it. It's not like cartridge's where you can run them until there's play, they need a service as soon as the axle feels a little grumbly (or sooner / annualy with fresh seals).

Wasn't the ebike XT Linkglide crazy heavy when it was released?

I’m confused. A bit. I read about this somewhere else and assumed this replaced all the previous lower end group sets and Linkglide with Linkglide widths/pull ratios etc etc and now called CUES

But this para suggests something different Or does Linkglide just refer to the cassettes?

"Although closely allied to CUES, and definitely relevant, Linkglide stuff will not have the same series numbers as CUES stuff. Linkglide items are all prefixed with LG (LG700, LG400, LG300 and so on)."

From memory Linkglide ‘groupsets’ were/are not compatible with existing 11spd (I don't think I’ve yet met anyone who's ridden it – didn't it launch in covid with some massive lead time?).

Also puzzled by

At this point we think it's worth pointing out that Linkglide offers the smoothest shifting of ANY Shimano groupset, XTR/Dura Ace including.

I thought the takeaway when it was launched was that Linkglide was tougher but at the expense of slower, clunkier?, shifting – ie ‘not as good as hyperglide’.

Shimano announces new Linkglide XT and Deore drivetrains promising increased durability

Is this like GRX, where there may be one "groupset" name… but in reality there's a whole series of different ones that result in confusion rather than clarity…? I suppose the Deore had already become a bit like that, coming in different "number of gears" options. I’m not sure it helps the rider or shops when it comes to spares.

That's how I see it Kelvin.

Re Linkglide

Is that not a ‘heavy duty’ chain,cassette and chainrings? It's not a groupset..?

I might be wrong but my take is that it's just budget linkglide compatible stuff, isn't the linkglide 11sp shifter incompatible with everything else therefore making SLX and above and older stuff a total seperation from the new stuff. Cues is a terrible name, this is the killing of the sacred deer, or should that be off.I wonder what new Saint stuff is gonna be compatible with.

I think this all looks like good news for affordable MTB and possibly road and gravel.

Hopefully Joe Public will get that solid shimano 11 speed makes more sense that 12 speed sram sx

Cartridge bearings could be a huge change. If the hubs and wheels stay at reasonable prices then they could become the norm on so many factory builds

11-46 9 speed?

Yes please.

I think the point in having it all under one umbrella is that one mech does everything, now we just need to find out what the actual pull ratio is.

Fair point. Currently shimano road and gravel 10 and 11 speed is all one pull ratio. Which does make shopping for but easier

Maybe Shimano have recognized there's a big market for affordable & durable components now a lot of us aren't able to splash the cash anywhere near so freely any more. I always used to buy Deore XT/SLX 9spd derailleurs from CRC. Smashed the last one up with a shopping trolley strike and replacement options boiled down to a well-used Deore XT 9spd or shiny new Alivo M3100. Opted for the shiny new Alivo but have been completely underwhelmed by it's performance.

Also wonder how many mountain bikes really need such big gearing. 11-46 is much more than I need for my doorstep riding, and would be fine for a half day out taking the bike in the car somewhere.

Hopefully they won't be made of plastic like the Alivo.

Also wonder how many mountain bikes really need such big gearing. 11-46 is much more than I need for my doorstep riding, and would be fine for a half day out taking the bike in the car somewhere.

It doesn't, but since people are completely incapable of getting their heads round triple or even double ring setups which are already completely impossible to set up without the relevant HND then I guess we’re stuck with them.

Is there really any point in keeping 10 speed?

Ebike ready out the box. Sounds great. Awaiting more info, especially pull ratios.

Oh dear. My four 9 speed bikes are now even more obsolete. Luckily chains and cassettes are still easy to find and I have a few derailleurs on the shelf in the shed.

I was just pondering really. Can't imagine I’m the only person in the world whose preference is to ride mountain bikes despite the local terrain not requiring a bike equipped with sprockets big enough to roast a turkey on!

Currently shimano road and gravel 10 and 11 speed is all one pull ratio

Yep, which leaves sora and claris as outliers and a great deal of confusion for people maintaining older ten speed groupsets. Unified compatibility is a good thing but what's the betting there's no backwards compatibility with anything current?

I think the point in having it all under one umbrella is that one mech does everything

That made sense. So I looked… and there are Cue derailleurs galore: with clutch, without, 9, 10, 11 speed, cable, di2… all look to be GS though (makes sense with no front mechs). All use the same chain width, so that's one spare shared.

Oh I completely agree, I’m pretty sure the old "weight saving" argument has more than been blown out the water by this point. I’m probably wrong though.

What I definitely know is I don't like more dead weight in my back wheel.

My understanding is that all the LinkGlide stuff (including CUES) is designed for slower but smoother shifting and higher durability. The pull ratio is unique to LinkGlide but the same across 9, 10 and 11 speed so their 11 speed shifter can operate all the mechs.

I’ve had XT LinkGlide on my Levo for less than a week. It looks solid AF. It does shift more smoothly especially under load but it doesn't slam from gear to gear as fast, especially if you’re on the furthest part of the sprocket from a ramp. Having destroyed so many HyperGlide cassettes I’m hopeful that the durablility claims will be true!

I haven't noticed the extra weight of the cassette when riding and generally I’m an annoyingly hypersensitive fussy rider. Maybe it would be more obvious with smaller tyres and less travel and less frame mass?

it pains me to say this, and sorry, but I really really had trouble following the write up (I’m not up to date on groupset technology) .

Skipped over to another website, and it's far more logically laid out and makes sense.

Seems that Deore 12 speed is carrying on as well, and drop bar shifters at least a season or two away.

I’ve had XT LinkGlide on my Levo for less than a week.

are you using linkglide shifter and derailleur with this?

as for bringing back front mechs to all bikes, single ring drivetrains have made packaging full suspension gubbins much easier.

i’d really like an 11-50 9speed cassette so that the chainline wouldn't be so brutal when climbing steep hills. for the riding i mostly do, i don't need closely spaced gears.

Yeah the reporting here is a bit chewy. I didn't see a release date either, or was that me getting lost in the words? Bens stuff is normally really good so I guess that was because of the Shimano presentation

Good to see 24mm crank axles are staying. That "standard" must be nearly 20 years old. Shows how well they nailed that design then.

I would love a Shimano 8 or 9 speed based on Microspline so 10-50 range, narrower cassette so less chain wear.

"are you using linkglide shifter and derailleur with this?"

Yes, full LinkGlide XT bar the chainring which is a Burgtec steel narrow-wide.

I’ve now got a GX Eagle drivetrain spare as my hardtail is now singlespeed, and an XT 11s mech, shifter and cassette(s?) from the Levo, so I guess that's the kids’ future gears sorted!

Yes, full LinkGlide XT bar the chainring which is a Burgtec steel narrow-wide.

thanks.

I would love a Shimano 8 or 9 speed based on Microspline so 10-50 range, narrower cassette so less chain wear.

if i had microspline rather than HG this is what i would be after. i suppose with HG i could move a couple of sprockets and spacers behind the low gear and get myself the 9 speed if my dreams.

Looks great. My only question is when they’re going to apply similar levels of common sense and interoperability to their expensive groupsets?

If 105 is Di2 only

Tell me it ain't so…

You’ve got to be shitting me. Is this actually the case?

Here's Russ reading a website and speculating a bit it's a reasonable summary of the announcement:

if i had microspline rather than HG this is what i would be after. i suppose with HG i could move a couple of sprockets and spacers behind the low gear and get myself the 9 speed if my dreams.

Yeah I only use Hope hubs across all my bikes so Microglide freehubs are feasible

Thanks scotroutes. There's probably long cage mechs to go with them as well.

My own take is that ‘CUES’ isn't prompted by some deep humanitarian desire to cater for the masses, it's shimano finally recognising the importance that "entry level" bikes are going to have for OEMs over the next few years while the global economy shits itself. And that if they can flog them more common componentry they might stop SRAM and Microshift taking up so much of that (already quite valuable and likely to grow) affordable bikes market segment.

They’re also probably well aware of all the Chinese "Groupsets" popping up. If anyone else's YT feed is like mine you’ve probably seen a few long-form videos from Trace Velo, Francis Cade and China cycling showcasing ‘L-Twoo’ and ‘Empire’ drivetrain stuff, lots of click-baity titles like "105 killer" and plenty of comparable weights but there always seem to be a couple of minor caveats, the trouble is they could easily get their shit together in the next 6-12 months and deliver viable kit to squash the existing market players including shimano.

The things that concern me about this press blurb are the bits that are not actually being put on show or really elaborated on, they’ve mentioned drop bar levers, but I don't see any pictures, and they’ve mentioned a common cable pull ratio but not said if it's going to be aligned to current MTB, Current Road or indeed some other random ratio to prevent backwards compatibility (probably the last option IMO).

The thing is when you strip away all the fluff what's actually on offer isn't really that new it's not "one groupset" it's three tiers depending on how many clicks you want (9/10/11), so still 3 groupsets but with the same name (which they already basically offer under Deore; 10/11/12 speed) but at a better price point (and probably a few extra grams). They’ve twigged that not everyone is impressed by "moar gearz" and I think the sweet spot is going to be 10 or 11 speed for lots of punters.

But they really need to get a hydraulically braked, drop-bar lever option out for it fast, SRAM already have that on offer for Apex and could probably slot in another tier below if they wanted, Microshift have cable flat and drop bar shifting options with Advent/Advent X but only with mechanical braking again there's only one element really missing from that product range that could see them score more sales.Having made this announcement if Shimano then move at their normal pace slotting that piece of the puzzle in they could well lose to their competition yet again.

To be clear I want to be able to buy what their claiming they’ll offer i.e. an affordable, cross compatible 9/10/11 speed flat/drop bar set of parts so I can bung the same stuff on Gravel/CX/MTB/hybrid bike and not have to fret about finding equivalent replacements in a few years, I’m just not sure they’re actually there yet, simply making the right sort of sounds…

If 105 is Di2 only

Tell me it ain't so…

You’ve got to be shitting me. Is this actually the case

105 won't be Di2 only – its going 12 speed mechanical according to accidentally released info: https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shimano-105-12-speed-mechanical/

I’m not taking any chances though – it's time to stock up on 11 speed 105.

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